Well it finally happened on the peak! After ages of people asking for achievements for everything (including when the fire watcher was released in VOA one genius asking for the VOA 10 achievement to join a group for VOA10 on the week it was released) now its gear score tastic.
By the looks of it now you cannot get into any raid without having done it before and also having some form of gear score (5K + for ICC it appears I have no clue what my druids is at all). It makes me glad I generally raid with the guild as for anyone new coming through even with an alt has had it for PUG raids even for older stuff like TOC which to be honest you could do easily as long as you know the fights.
Personally it really hacks me off as from where I sit gear score means precisely dick. Even asking for the achievement is a little better as you are asking if someone has seen the fight even if its from face down on the floor.
I have in heroics encountered people with nice gear on inspection who have turned out to be either asleep or not in possession of a keyboard I still shudder at the memories of full t9 ret pally pulling <1000 dps. I am sure their gear score is respectable but I think my dog could play better by licking pizza off the keyboard.
I hope that Ghostcrawler wasn't joking in his hint that Blizz could come up with a way to break gearscore such as the I level 600 shirt ect.
I don't know why this annoys me so much as it really doesn't affect me due to A) my main being well geared and B) me only raiding with my guild as a rule.
I think it is that I have always had a bit an issue with elitism especially when it is used by people who consider themselves elite by to be honest are so far off of it its laughable.
I get it sometimes at work as even though I am a qualified chemist I need by the nature of my work to wear overalls a lot. Ours are bright orange so we look like binmen it is amazing some of the assumptions that are made by people on sites we work on (generally those who wear labcoats as they work in a nice clean environment) as to the level of our skill and knowledge. Nothing give me greater pleasure that to put people such people right especially as I have 20 years experience in my chosen field.
Overall my experiences over the years at work have taught me never to make snap judgements on people as I meet all sorts of people who have all sorts of appearances depending on the work they carry out. I have met lorry drivers with doctorates, a man dressed like a tramp who in fact turned out to be a multi millionaire and people who are qualified way beyond I would ever be but who outside their chosen field I wouldn't have trusted to make a cup of tea as their common sense appeared to be have been pushed out of their heads by the knowledge they had accumulated.
I try and apply this in game to anyone I have grouped with I tend to judge on how they perform not on their gear or achievements. I only wish others would do the same but addons such as gearscore just push snap judgments even more and I wish it would go away as soon as possible.
But yesterday I saw someone asking for a 4K gearscore to do Naxx 10 so I guess we have a way to go yet....
Zetter
8 comments:
oh don't tell me about it. I just wrote a rant about stupid people asking for achievement in VoA. It's really annoying and it's pure stupidity.
This has been rehashed many times over. My short take below:
"Overall my experiences over the years at work have taught me never to make snap judgements on people ..."
Right. I agree. But when you are forming a PUG raid, you *have* to make snap judgements. Both achievements and gearscore help in that they work as a filter, a person with an achievement / high gearscore is more likely to do his part than a person with no achievement / low gearscore.
That's it.
Now, there is an argument that some people misuse gearscore in that they, for example, trust it too much and don't check specs / enchants / gems, and as a result can accept someone with high ilvl gear that doesn't suit their class or role. But that's a different discussion, that of using the tools you have properly, and not a generic "gearscore sucks, it is worthless, aaaaa" rant.
My two cents...
Sorry but I dont agree gearscore looks at a number and tries to distill if you can do your job by the basis of that number.
Its a tool yes but a crap blunt tool that is easily abused and basically kills of any chance of new players being able to pug any sort of raid especially on the peak.
At least with Acheivments you know someone has seen the fight if you want a smooth run but that doesnt taken into accoun the myriad of alts.
All gearscore gets you is some more highly geared windowlickers than usual.
Zetter
Well, what did you do when pugging heroics in TBC? You never asked what kind of gear people had before entering the instance? Or if they had done the instance previously with success?
The problem now is that everyone is in such a rush that if you happen to make a mistake, you either get kicked or everyone just leaves.
Neither Gearscore nor achievements garantee sucess...
To be honest in TBC the reputation system generally sorted it out as you couldnt get in to heroics before you had run the normal dungeon quite a few times.
So overall I generally got on ok or you could see it wasnt going to work so you went your own ways but people did generally have a good go before the group folded it was a lot different to heroics and raids now.
Zetter
This ticks me off mightily... the thing is there is NO WAY to evaluate how somebody is going to perform and how the group they're going to be part of is going to perform. So-called "tools" to help you make that decision merely obfuscate the fact that you actually, really have NO WAY of knowing.
Getting a group together is far more than getting 5 or 10 or 25 people who SHOULD be able to perform a task - all it takes is a healing team who can't communicate, a tank who thinks he's the dog's bollox and 3 DPS who think they don't have to get out of bad shit because they're only DPS lol and you're doomed.
I think people kid themselves that achis and gearscore and all that malarkey gives them a BETTER CHANCE of putting together a functional group - but naw.
In short: yes, agreed :)
Gearscore and achievements *do* improve the chance of a group to down the content. That's just math (yes, I can elaborate).
You can say that they are too blunt a tool, but unless you suggest some alternative tools (please note that many are being used by people composing PUG raids already, gearscore / achievements are just an initial filter), you won't be contributing much.
Similarly to how some people are tired with the raid leaders demanding gearscore / achievements, the raid leaders are tired with people who would rather whine instead of suggesting alternative ways to weed out the bads (and, yes, there are lots of bads) or, gasp, starting their own PUG raids. The "I don't know why this annoys me so much as it really doesn't affect me -- but I will flame anyway" attitude shown by the author is rather characteristic.
Nope it doesnt affect me much and yep I will flame away its my blog my opinion :) isnt the net great.
But it DOES affect people just starting out as they have no chance of getting groups for even the simplest of content that they are geared for as people put unrealist expectations on what is needed for a run due to people actually not wanting to try (Naxx 4K + score springs to mind).
Sorry to disapoint you I have run PUGs for raids before and havn't really had major issues with people and nope I dont have gearscore installed. The biggest problem I have found is people not having a clue what they are actually doing despite good gear. DPSing the adds on Instructor was a good one dont see how gearscore will help you with that.
I dont think a lot of "pug" raid leaders are tired of people who cant perform. I think its more "can I find people to carry me through content" as it amazing the amount who dont even have the gearscore or achievment they are demanding. Yes I have amouried people who are demanding acheivments only to find "gasp" they didnt have them.
I do have respect for people who at least ask you to show up at a point in Dalaran so they can inspect you gear and see if its gemmed and enchanted correctly. Pretty simple way of doing it for 10 mans and a not a lot more hassle.
You have you opinion but checking out a majority of posts not many people have a good word to say about the addon.
Zetter
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